October 11, 2024
We had the opportunity to sit down with Jay Wright over Zoom. Jay is the CEO of Campfire, an easy-to-use software solution for sharing and reviewing 3D models with anyone, across existing desktop devices and a new generation of headsets. Jay will moderate the panel "Immersive Design & Visualization (Product Design, Prototyping, Asset, and Data Visualization) featuring speakers from Stryker, Walmart, Rolls-Royce, and more at the 2024 Augmented Enterprise Summit. Learn more about Campfire.
Campfire’s Origin Story
Emily: My first question is about the company name. What is Campfire's origin story, and where did you come up with the name?
Jay: It’s a pretty long origin story, but it came on the heels of a decade spent in immersive tech, running efforts at Qualcomm and then PTC. So, I was very familiar with the need [for XR]. Then, I was approached by some investors that had bought assets of a former immersive tech company called The Meta Company. It was kind of ashes at that point, and I saw an opportunity to take those ashes and turn them into Campfire. When we started, we were actually doing some hardware of our own. Now, because of Quest 3 and other devices, we've left that behind to focus on software.
And with respect to the name Campfire, I don't think we could come up with anything better that conjures so perfectly what we do and what makes us different. Our work is premised on the fact that people collaborate most naturally and communicate most naturally around things — like a campfire, your dinner table, a conference room table — and our software really is designed around that principle. Yeah, we love the name. We really love it.
The Inflection Point for XR
Emily: I love it; I immediately think of telling ghost stories. You’ve been quoted recently saying that we’re at an inflection point for XR. What do you mean by that?
Jay:
When I'm talking about an inflection point, a lot of it is on the device side. I feel like in the past 12 months, we've seen more change in XR hardware than over the last 15 years I’ve been doing this. If you look back to computing and prior generations, it's very much like the transition from mini computer to PC. And I think we just hit the equivalent of the PC with Quest 3, where we've got something that everybody understands and is accessible and easy to use.
Looking back at the past year, all these devices we’ve been discussing for a decade…HoloLens? Goodbye. Magic Leap? Not around. And now, with passthrough on Quest 3, and this may be a little aggressive, but I think any headset that doesn’t have really good passthrough is akin to a doorstop now—not as much utility.
And devices are just going that way. It's been a dramatic change. I think the transition will even accelerate now, after we’ve seen things like Project Orion a couple of weeks ago. I think everyone realized that the consumer end game, it's visible.
Emily: I was impressed; they do look a lot like my personal eyeglasses. Having been in the space since 2015, I completely agree. The pace of advancement, the countless devices I’ve seen come and go.
Jay:
It's just totally changed. It's a passthrough story. Quest 3 has led it, and others are coming.
Coincident with that transition to Quest 3, which I’m calling the PC, there’s also a new generation of software like Campfire making it really easy for people to use these devices. We’re moving from a period of having to build custom applications, requiring a lot of time and money, to off-the-shelf software that feels familiar. It just works with 3D and spatial information. That's what I mean by inflection point.
The Impact of Next-Gen Devices in Enterprise
Emily: What has been the impact, in enterprise, of these next-gen headsets like Vision Pro, and what are you most looking forward to about some of the rumored upcoming headsets like Orion? We hear that Samsung has something in the works, Vision Pro 2 may be entering production…
Jay: I think the needle mover is Quest 3. The price, performance, and passthrough on that device and the scale on which it was deployed, it’s had more impact than anything else. What we’re seeing is that people who were dismissive of VR in the past — “I can’t see anyone. I look weird. I’m uncomfortable” — so many of those issues go away when they can see through.
There was a great quote from a customer just yesterday morning. He’s been doing “this XR/VR thing” for years and, trying Quest 3 for the first time, he says, “I feel like this is immersive in a natural way, but not down the rabbit hole.” So, it’s just accessible and approachable to more people, which is why I say the PC moment.
You might think that because it’s a consumer device, it wouldn’t have much impact in enterprise. But it’s counterintuitive — the fact that it’s a consumer device is what’s driving the enterprise. The price is low, and professionals can rationalize buying it or have already bought the device as a consumer, perhaps to play with their kids or to exercise. Then they’re taking it to work and figuring out what it can do.
We used to call it the consumerization of IT, as we saw with the iPhone. People bought the iPhone as a consumer, took it to work, and then it started becoming part of workflows, software began to support it, IT supported it…I think we’re experiencing the same phenomenon.
Emily: I used to think it was going to go the other way, like the BlackBerry: you would use it at work and bring it home. The most important thing with XR is putting it on. Once you put it on, you can brainstorm a thousand ways to use it.
Jay:
Yeah, you really can't appreciate it just being described to you. You've got to experience it.
Choosing the Right XR Hardware
Emily: As a software company, what’s your advice for enterprises trying to choose from all the different XR hardware options now on the market? How do you address the fear that a device will become obsolete before it can be completely rolled out?
Jay: I mean, look, the obvious answer is don't focus on anything tied to a device, right? Look for device independence in the software you're looking at, and maybe take it a step further — really consider the use case and make sure the device fits.
Often people are talking about two different devices as if they’re interchangeable, something like a HoloLens or Quest 3. But the reality is there are some use cases for which you can only use a HoloLens. If you’re on the manufacturing floor, you need peripheral vision; you can’t put something around your entire face. So, consider the use case and make sure the device fits the use case.
Overcoming Common Roadblocks
Emily: Good advice. What are some common roadblocks your customers face and how has Campfire helped overcome them?
Jay: Well, at the highest level, we're helping our customers share 3D information, and largely it's 3D that's coming from CAD. You likely have people in the company who can use CAD, but there are also a lot of non-engineers, non-CAD users, that could get tremendous value from having access to that 3D data whether for a cross-functional design review or salespeople showing products or training. What we do is make it really easy for non-engineers to work with and share CAD and 3D data. We make it as easy as sharing pictures and text in PowerPoint.
Making XR Accessible for Companies of All Sizes
Emily: How is Campfire making XR more accessible to enterprises of all sizes? We often hear this is a Fortune 500 game because they have the money, but as you said the price of the hardware is coming down.
Jay: Yeah. I mean the best way to make tech available to companies of all sizes is to make it available for free and self-service. Self-service meaning I can just download the app and use it. That’s what we’ve done with Campfire. Anyone who wants to try Campfire can go to our website, create a free account, download the app, and get going. I don’t think you can say that about all XR solutions. Whether you’re a student or a C-level executive at a Fortune 500 company, you can get into Campfire and scale it to the needs of your organization.
Repurposing Existing 3D Assets for XR
Emily: A big challenge we hear from end users involves repurposing existing 3D assets like CAD models for immersive apps. It sounds like Campfire has solved this one.
Jay: We try to make everything as easy as possible. Of course, there’s room for improvement. We see this often when it comes to training: people want to take CAD and make it suitable for showing people how to do things, but generally the CAD models are just too big. They have too many parts, too much detail, and all that detail is just unnecessary for the training use case.
For example, there are parts inside, circuit boards or wires — a bunch of internal layers that no one cares about if they’re just trying to show the outside. So, you have to go through this exercise of removing stuff on the inside, getting rid of screws, washers, nuts, and bolts to make it more manageable. Smaller and more manageable means it will work better on a wider range of devices.
Emily: It sounds like another challenge we hear: Once you get those 3D models from CAD, how can you repurpose them for other applications? Perhaps you’ve created assets or converted them for design reviews. Is it possible to take it elsewhere in the business?
Jay: It depends. If you’re using 3D models for engineering or design reviews, they probably don’t have pretty materials or colors and so wouldn’t be ready for sales or marketing purposes. For that level, you’ll need people within your organization who can add those elements.
Some of that work can happen in Campfire. For example, you might take CAD models that don’t have any color or material information and color-code them for training use. You can just drag and drop colors on different parts. But for sales and marketing use cases, you need photorealistic renderings and that’s another set of tools.
Do Enterprises Need to Hire XR Developers?
Emily: Do you think it's necessary for enterprises today to hire XR developers?
Jay: In some cases, absolutely. Off-the-shelf software like Campfire can serve a wide range of needs, but sometimes what you need is really specialized and there’s a business case to build your own application. The thing to remember is, before embarking on one of those projects, do a survey of the landscape and make sure there isn’t something off-the-shelf that can do it.
Once you go down that road, you’ll inevitably find out that it’s more expensive and time-consuming than you thought. Many people estimate custom projects based on what they’ve done in 2D land. But it’s not just going from 2D to 3D; it’s going from a device that basically has a rectangle for a screen to something spatial, with different controllers, different displays, and different UI paradigms. It’s a whole different game.
What’s Next for Campfire
Emily: So, what's next for Campfire?
Jay: You know, we talked about making things easier to use and easier to adopt. That's what makes Campfire, Campfire. For us, there’s some additional devices and other things we’re hard at work on. Some of our customers can’t move forward and get new devices approved, so in some cases we’re going back a little bit.
We also talked about repurposing and bringing in your CAD assets. We want to make it as easy as possible to get your CAD data into XR, from wherever it lives today. That might be on your computer, the file system, or it might be PLM. We just want to make it smooth. Because, at the end of the day, people only adopt these tools to the extent they can really be a natural extension of their current workflow. So, plenty to do, Emily!
Emily: Always, and always new devices to support.
Jay: Yeah, that keeps it fun.
